Players Cut

This topic contains 31 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Moca DOM 6 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #3993
     Santiago de Cuba USA 
    Spectator

    Two players, one of them a platoon starter, were cut from my team and I didn’t do it. My team had 23 players for the last sim. How did this happen?

  • #26006
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    I cant speak for the simmer but I do know you have been over 90 mill all season.

  • #26008
     Vancouver CUB 
    Spectator

    That’s effed up and should never happen. It’s not the simmer’s job to make roster moves unless the game can’t advance without them, regardless of payroll. That’s what fines and warnings are for.

    I would address this with the Commish, Bob.

  • #26009
     Santiago de Cuba USA 
    Spectator

    Then the rules should be followed and I should be notified and fined. One of those hitters was filling in as my leadoff hitter.

  • #26012
     La Habana KOR 
    Spectator

    yea, that is pretty messed up if that is what happened!

  • #26013
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    Again I doubt one had anything to do with the other. I was just pointing this out.

  • #26014
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    TBH just looking… if we are talking about “rules” Templeman shouldn’t have been up on your roster at all this year.

    You have been over the cap all year so you wouldn’t have been allowed to bring him up anyway so that’s another “rules” thing to think about.

  • #26018
     Santiago de Cuba USA 
    Spectator

    I strongly disagree with the way this was handled, cutting my players and issuing a large retroactive fine, but I won’t spend time arguing against it.

    I’ve been trying to get under the cap for the entire season but it just hasn’t worked. I got a couple major league contracts that should’ve been minor league deals right at the start of the season that took me over the cap. A couple players were given away that I wanted to keep so that I could hopefully fix the problem. Injuries added up (3/5 of my rotation and my leadoff CF). It became impossible to field a 25 man roster under the cap without doing something drastic like cutting essential players.

    I assumed that I would get a warning and small fine, as per the rules, but got an $8.9 mil fine and no choice of who got cut.

    Oh well. This was my first year pressed against the salary cap and I learned a lot. Stay away from the cap because you’ll eventually go over it.

  • #26020
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    Bob, I can understand frustration about getting a guy cut and all, and again I don’t know the situation and it could very well have been in error

    BUT

    Don’t try and cry to us about “I’ve been trying to get under the cap for the entire season but it just hasn’t worked. ” b/c thats just malarky.

    If you are over the cap cut a guy make, a deal but get your butt under the cap. It’s a CAP for a reason. You have been in the league a long time and know better.

    I have been in here nearly 30 seasons and have had teams right up against the cap A LOT, but never ever have I been over the cap where I would have been fined. You have been over the cap now for around 16 sims.

    Be mad about the cuts but don’t try and act like you couldn’t have fixed your cap issues. And CERTAINLY no one should listen to a warning about “Stay away from the cap because you’ll eventually go over it.”

    You should say, I messed up and should have fixed it immediately and I hoped no one would care for the whole season.

    The cap can be a hard thing to manage and things do happen with Arbi and such but it’s certainly manageable and it’s part of the game.

  • #26021
     Toluca KOR 
    Spectator

    I think SANTIAGO DE CUBA should be demoted instead of Toluca. Cap_PDT_01_05

  • #26022
     Maracaibo USA 
    Spectator

    And two teams behind you in the standings, trying to fight off relegation, might be wondering if the season might have gone differently had you been held under the cap all year…
    Cap_PDT_01_20

  • #26024
     Bocas del Toro VEN 
    Spectator

    Yep, I don’t agree with players being cut without a warning, that’s definitely not cool…hopefully it was just in error. If it was, they can be assigned back, I’m pretty sure you’re locked into 2nd place anyways.

    But there’s no reason for being over the cap for so long…you can easily make deals and/or cut players. It’s not like you didn’t know you were over the cap.

    In my mind, people should get a warning, then if it’s not acted on by the next sim or two, big fines should start since it’s impossible for the simmer to determine “who should get cut”. If it’s been a few sims and they’re still over, then start cutting and make a best decision for who’s not playing

  • #26025
     Vancouver CUB 
    Spectator

    @Maracaibo (USA) wrote:

    And two teams behind you in the standings, trying to fight off relegation, might be wondering if the season might have gone differently had you been held under the cap all year…
    Cap_PDT_01_20

    That’s bunkum. Technically a team can be over the cap all season if they’re willing to absorb the fines.

    The retro-active fine doesn’t bother me – Bob’s a very active owner and I’m sure he was aware of his cap malfeasance, but cutting players from an active owner’s team without warning makes my blood boil. Cap_PDT_01_15

    I’m sure a message to the Commish asking him to restore wanted players into their respective lineup spots will do the trick. They were released at the end of the sim so no harm done.

    As for “trying to get under the cap” – that’s a no-brainer. Releasing players removes the salary from your payroll and eats up your cash or lack thereof. I’ve had to do it a bunch of times this year so try to stay within the spirit of the rules please Bob. Cap_PDT_01_04

  • #26026
     Barquisimeto CAN 
    Spectator

    I cleaned up the teams that were over the cap, I will fix this on the next sim. I thought that was the rule and if it’s not it should be. Teams should not be allowed to skirt the cap rules especially in our league where you cut money at the end of the season. We have a Salary Cap, not a Luxury Tax.

    Bob, please export, and message me with where you want to cut players.

    As for the Fine, just be happy you weren’t fined for the entire season. It’s under the expectations that you get fined for being over the salary cap, and with a few changes in responsibilities the fines haven’t been executed. Just cause you’ve managed to skirt the fines in the past doesn’t mean they might not apply.

  • #26029
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    There is precedence for the cutting to be honest. It’s been done in the past.

    There is also the Commish privlege to basically fine or take action where he sees fit.

    I will say that here I might have liked a message to Bob that says “hey get under the cap this sim or we will make you under the cap”

    In the past there was a rule to the effect of you get 3 sims to get under then we make you under but the wording was removed.

    Also the fines for over the cap are supposed to be to that they are multiplicative (sorry if that’s not the right term). You get the money for over 90. Then it gets doubled. Then doubled again and so on every sim. This was supposed to be changed b/c like Rick said a team could be over all season (especially if they had a crap ton of millions saved up), and this was designed to be harsh so it could not be loop holed.

    I have seen leagues where if you are over you forfeit every game while you are over. THATS harsh.

    I think the one guy should be put back but the other should not, b/c essentially bob has been using an illegal player on his roster.You are not allowed to make moves which purposely put you over the cap. Then Bob is given this sim to make the moves to get under 90.

  • #26030
     Taegu JPN 
    Spectator

    you all have probably noticed a lack of bothersome PMs in your inboxes this season.

    for full disclosure, I got burned out and lost motivation on checking the rules. unfortunately this resulted in an unannounced and unapproved vacation of sorts from my duties. I will accept a portion of* the responsibility and any backlash that results from allowing these violations to go on this long, and I’m now seeing the consequences.

    therefore, beginning tonight, I will be going through the league and firing up the presses. I know there are only a few sims left, but that’s no excuse to allow things to go unchecked.

    (*I say a portion because there really shouldn’t be any violations if you dudes were running your teams in accordance with the rules!!!)

  • #26032
     Santiago de Cuba USA 
    Spectator

    @Barquisimeto (USA) wrote:

    Bob, please export, and message me with where you want to cut players.

    Exported and messaged. I made the necessary cut myself so that you just need to add the player back to my roster. Thanks for taking care of this.

  • #26033
     La Habana KOR 
    Spectator

    Hey, I totally get that…why are you working solo on this? In the past, we use to have a check team in place who would be assigned a league and who were responsible for all the teams in that league…I would be willing to offer my time to do this again.

    dcc

  • #26034
     Vancouver CUB 
    Spectator

    I totally think Santiago de Cuba should forfeit all their games since they’re the only team I’m below .500 against Cap_PDT_01_05

    Seriously though, this isn’t a giant deal but we expect WBH veterans to set examples for the rest of the league…

    I have also been burned out by rule-checking in the past, This isn’t something that needs to be done by the board – we’re always looking for reliable rule checkers although we haven’t asked in a while. I wouldn’t be opposed to a public forum thread exclusively for rules violations that way whoever happens to have the time can point things out, Most of the time the honor system works out well but violations slip through the cracks. I shudder to think of the illegal contracts floating around out there….

  • #26035
     Oaxaca JPN 
    Spectator

    I also could help check rules in a league once the link to the actual rules is restored.

  • #26037
     Hong Kong CUB 
    Spectator

    I knew Gerry gave Santiago the fine, but I didn’t know he cut players. Unless we have reason to believe a GM is AWOL, we should not be in the business of touching anyone’s roster.

    Just want everyone to know the official policy on the matter.

    We do need some help with checking rules, by the way, going into the 2035 season. Gerhard and Dominic: I’ll be contacting you about that.

  • #26040
     La Habana KOR 
    Spectator

    Kool, would be nice to give back a little to the Best damn on-line league, period!

  • #26041
     Busan CUB 
    Spectator

    I agree its the best league out there….. if u guys need anything let me know

  • #26044
     Changsha JPN 
    Spectator

    Transactions this year.
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/lgreports/news/html//teams/team_32_all_transactions_0_0.html
    The rules state you can call up a minor league player if it takes you over the cap.
    Your Player Payroll (#1) is the total of all contracts in your franchise for the current season. It is updated as soon as you acquire a new player with a major league contract, make a successful Waiver Claim, release a player with a major league contract or call up a player from one of your affiliates who has a minor league contract in which he will receive a $350,000 contract upon placement on the active roster (this is the only way that the game will let you go above the Payroll Cap, so please be aware of this if you are close to the Cap
    I got that from Finance 101
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1548

    SANTIAGO DE CUBA transactions this year.
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/lgreports/news/html//teams/team_32_all_transactions_0_0.html
    The fine is correct, but the only player that should be cut is P Luciano Vichot #19 The reasoning is on July 10th he was traded for and he increased his cap number with that trade. But this should have happen then if he was over the cap on that sim or the trade sould have been canceled.
    If the team wasn’t over the cap then then only weekly fines should have been the punishments.

  • #26045
     Barquisimeto CAN 
    Spectator

    @Changsha (CAN) wrote:

    SANTIAGO DE CUBA transactions this year.
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/lgreports/news/html//teams/team_32_all_transactions_0_0.html
    The fine is correct, but the only player that should be cut is P Luciano Vichot #19 The reasoning is on July 10th he was traded for and he increased his cap number with that trade. But this should have happen then if he was over the cap on that sim or the trade sould have been canceled.
    If the team wasn’t over the cap then then only weekly fines should have been the punishments.

    It seems it was a salary neutral trade, which is likely why it went through. There were 2 trades that were one, but since teams can only trade a max of 5 players in the game it had to be processed as 2 parts.

  • #26048
     Changsha JPN 
    Spectator

    Tocumen sends:
    SP Luciano Vichot (ML)2.44M
    SP Manny Morales (ML) 5.7M

    Santiago de Cuba sends:
    SP Ling-lai Ow-Yang (AAA)$0.00
    3B Luis Gandarilla (AAA)$0.00
    CF Jian-gun Dai (AAA).35M
    LF Jorge Aranda (A)$0.00
    IF Tanyu Ikeda (ML)$2.6M
    LF Kaoru Saito (ML)$5M

    2034 salary out bound 7.95M
    2034 salary inbound 8.14M
    not even
    Not sure if SANTIAGO DE CUBA was over the 90mil cap before the trade?

  • #26050
     Hong Kong CUB 
    Spectator

    @Changsha (CAN) wrote:

    Transactions this year.
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/lgreports/news/html//teams/team_32_all_transactions_0_0.html
    The rules state you can call up a minor league player if it takes you over the cap.
    Your Player Payroll (#1) is the total of all contracts in your franchise for the current season. It is updated as soon as you acquire a new player with a major league contract, make a successful Waiver Claim, release a player with a major league contract or call up a player from one of your affiliates who has a minor league contract in which he will receive a $350,000 contract upon placement on the active roster (this is the only way that the game will let you go above the Payroll Cap, so please be aware of this if you are close to the Cap
    I got that from Finance 101
    http://worldbaseballhierarchy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1548

    Yes, that’s written in the rules because we have no way to stop it.

    So yes, you are allowed to call the player up and go over the cap, but you are not allowed to remain over the cap. That’s a big difference. If you call the player up, and go over the cap, you’re expected to immediately make a trade or cut a player to comply with our league rules.

  • #26054
     Santiago de Cuba USA 
    Spectator

    @Changsha (CAN) wrote:

    Not sure if SANTIAGO DE CUBA was over the 90mil cap before the trade?

    I was under the cap at this time.

  • #26055
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    AAron, the rule says this is the way the game will let you go over the cap. Meaning you can do it and not be aware of doing it.

    It’s still against the rules to go over the cap.

  • #26056
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    Actually Bob unless that trade came in off season you were over the cap. You have not been under the cap the entire 2034 season.

  • #26058
     Taegu JPN 
    Spectator

    I’m not sure it’s worth going back and forth about the specifics of what has transpired during the course of the season – Rules were not checked, certain rules were skirted until now, and transactions were possibly made when they shouldn’t have.

    We’ve retroactively assessed a substantial, but fair, fine for the violation as a penalty, and I think we need to move on.

    Bob and Gerry will get together to get the roster corrected for this sim, and we need to wash our hands of this and move on.

    I think lessons have been learned by several parties, and we need to be cautious that we don’t make the same mistakes again.

    For everyone to know, I have gone through all teams to check on various things – the state of the league isn’t in as bad a shape as I thought it could be. But I still need to check on contracts (I don’t foresee too many illegal contracts, since things were good up through opening day).

    Also, I have a small group of volunteers who will be helping with rule checks going forward. This was the way things were up until about 10 seasons ago. Big thanks to Gerhard, Jeff and Dom for stepping up to help.

  • #26059
     Moca DOM 
    Spectator

    Ben brings up a good point. I am going to lock the thread since we have a resolution here.

    Bring on the last 3 sims!

    Moca Man Dan

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